AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03630
The applicant's complete submission is at Exhibit A. A1Y states that the applicant did not transfer his Post-9/11 GI Bill education benefits to his dependents prior to his retirement as defined in Public Law No 110-252, nor follow the instructions given by his Force Support Squadron (FSS) for retirement out-processing. We took notice of the applicants complete submission in judging the merits of the case; however, we agree with the opinion and recommendation of the Air Force office of...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03631
Additionally, the PCM states the FA failure/weight gain may have had something to do with insufficient synthroid dose; once again, this does not definitively indicate the failed FA was due to a pre-existing medical condition. The applicant has failed to provide sufficient evidence to exempt him from the FA. The complete DPSIM evaluation, with attachment, is at Exhibit C. ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT'S REVIEW OF AIR FORCE EVALUATION: A copy of...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03636
________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT CONTENDS THAT: To say she should never have been allowed in the Air Force because of her condition and that her discharge should be for erroneous enlistment is wrong. The relevant facts pertaining to this application are described in the letters prepared by the Air Force offices of primary responsibility which are included at Exhibits C and D. ________________________________________________________________ AIR FORCE...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03641
The applicant applied for an HPSP scholarship and it was denied. The JA advisory opinion states that applicant simply had no reasonable basis to believe he was entitled to an HPSP scholarship. However, the applicant had a firm basis to believe he was contracted under the HPSP given the Air Force via the commanding officer of the AFROTC program, believed there was a binding contract, thus signing a letter stating the applicant was guaranteed a HPSP scholarship. ...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03645
He should have remained on active duty orders until he could be returned to duty or processed through the Disability Evaluation System (DES). Based on the information provided, the applicant was not eligible for Medical continuation as he has not provided any medical documentation to show that he received treatment of consultation, The Command Manday Allocation System (CMAS) reflects the applicant has been approved for Military Personnel Appropriation (MPA) (active duty orders) from 22...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03646
In the latter case, the former spouse must provide legal documentation the service member agreed, or the court ordered the service member, to establish former spouse coverage. There is no record the applicant submitted a valid election to establish former spouse SBP coverage within the first year following their divorce. She has not provided evidence showing the former service member made an election for former spouse coverage within one year of their divorce as required by law.
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03654
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03654 COUNSEL: NONE HEARING DESIRED: NO _________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: He be awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC). _________________________________________________________________ ADDITIONAL AIR FORCE EVALUATION: SAF/MRBP recommends upgrading the AM, 5 OLC, to the DFC. We note DPSIDs recommendation to deny...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03655
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03655 COUNSEL: NONE HEARING DESIRED: NO ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: His records be corrected to reflect he made a timely election for former spouse and child coverage under the Survivor Benefit Plan (SBP). However, there was no evidence that either the applicant or the former spouse made an election to change spouse...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03658
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03658 COUNSEL: NONE HEARING DESIRED: NO ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: He be awarded the Distinguished Unit Citation (DUC). The remaining relevant facts pertaining to this application are described in the letter prepared by the Air Force office of primary responsibility (OPR) which is attached at Exhibit...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03663
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03663 COUNSEL: NONE HEARING DESIRED: NOT INDICATED ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: His regular Reserve retirement be changed to disability/medical retirement. ________________________________________________________________ THE BOARD DETERMINES THAT: The applicant be notified that the evidence presented did...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03668
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03668 COUNSEL: YES HEARING DESIRED: YES ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: He be considered for promotion to the grade of major by special selection boards (SSB) for the Calendar Years 1993B (CY93B) and 1994A (CY94A) Major Line Central Selection Boards (CSB). As a result of his non- selection promotion to major, he was...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03670
Members may be discharged when the member has accumulated nine or more unexcused absences from UTA within a 12-month period. _________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT'S REVIEW OF AIR FORCE EVALUATION: On 26 November 2012, a copy of the Air Force evaluation was forwarded to the applicant for review and response within 30 days (Exhibit D). We took notice of the applicants complete submission in judging the merits of the case; however, we agree with the...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03673
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03673 COUNSEL: NONE HEARING DESIRED: NOT INDICATED _________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: Her general (under honorable conditions) discharge be upgraded to honorable. On 1 Oct 82, after interviewing the applicant and reviewing her records and case file, the evaluation officer recommended the applicant be furnished a general...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03674
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03674 COUNSEL: NONE HEARING DESIRED: NO ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: The top three blocks on his AF IMT 2030, USAF Drug and Alcohol Abuse Certificate, Section II, Certification at Time of Application, be changed to read Yes. ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT CONTENDS...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03678
________________________________________________________________ THE BOARD RECOMMENDS THAT: The pertinent military records of the Department of the Air Force relating to the APPLICANT be corrected to show that on 29 November 2009, he elected to transfer his Post-9/11 GI Bill Educational Benefits to his dependents. Exhibit C. Letter, AFPC/DPSIT, dated 24 Aug 12. Exhibit D. Letter, SAF/MRBR, dated 29 Aug 12.
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03684
AFBCMR BC-2012-03684 MEMORANDUM OF CONSIDERATION OF APPLICATION BEFORE THE AFBCMR SUBJECT: Having carefully reviewed this application, we agree with the recommendations of the Air Force offices of primary responsibility and adopt the rationale expressed as the basis for our decision that the applicant has been the victim of either an error or an injustice. Therefore, we recommend the applicant's records be corrected to show that: The pertinent military records of the Department of the Air...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03685
In addition, the applicant served with the 45th Fighter Day Squadron, United States Air Force Europe, from 13 February 1956 to 19 September 1956. They were unable to verify award of any certificates or merits for the applicants service with the 45th Day Fighter Squadron, United States Air Force Europe or for his service while assigned to Travis Air Force Base. The applicants contentions are duly noted; however, after reviewing the evidence of record, we agree with the opinion and...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03689
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03689 COUNSEL: NONE HEARING DESIRED: NO _______________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: His records be corrected to reflect he was awarded the Humanitarian Service Medal (HSM). We took notice of the applicants complete submission in judging the merits of the case; however, we agree with the opinion and recommendation of the Air Force...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03694
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03694 COUNSEL: NONE HEARING DESIRED: NO ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: His service connected disability be re-evaluated under the Combat Related Special Compensation (CRSC) program. The remaining relevant facts pertaining to this application are contained in the letter prepared by the appropriate office of the Air Force...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03695
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03695 COUNSEL: NO HEARING DESIRED: NO ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: His general (under honorable conditions) discharge be upgraded to honorable. On 23 August 1988, the Air Force Discharge Review Board (AFDRB) considered the applicants request to upgrade his discharge to honorable and change his narrative reason for...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03698
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2013-01382 XXXXXXX(DECEASED) COUNSEL: NONE XXXXX (APPLICANT) HEARING DESIRED: NO ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: Her late husbands (decedent) records be corrected to show he made a timely election for spouse coverage under the Survivor Benefit Plan (SBP). After the death of the retired member, the widow provided a...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03702
_________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT CONTENDS THAT: His DD Form 214 does not reflect his MSM award. We took notice of the applicant's complete submission in judging the merits of the case; however, we agree with the opinion and recommendation of the Air Force office of primary responsibility and adopt its rationale as the basis for our conclusion that the applicant has not been the victim of an error or injustice. ...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03707
The remaining relevant facts pertaining to his application are contained in the letter prepared by the appropriate office of the Air Force, which is at Exhibit C. ________________________________________________________________ AIR FORCE EVALUATION: AFPC/DPAA recommends denial, indicating that based on the evidence provided, a temporary duty (TDY) assignment to the RVN cannot be confirmed. A complete copy of the AFPC/DPAPP evaluation is at Exhibit...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03712
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03712 COUNSEL: NONE HEARING DESIRED: NO ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: His medical conditions of Dysthymic Disorder, Superimposed Adjustment Disorder, Mild Cognitive Impairment (MCI), and Aspergers Syndrome, be considered by a Medical Evaluation Board (MEB) and he be either reinstated in the Air Force or...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03724
AFBCMR BC-2012-03724 MEMORANDUM OF CONSIDERATION OF APPLICATION BEFORE THE AFBCMR SUBJECT: Having carefully reviewed this application, we agree with the recommendation of the Air Force office of primary responsibility and adopt the rationale expressed as the basis for our decision that the applicant has been the victim of either an error or an injustice. Therefore, we recommend that: The pertinent military records of the Department of the Air Force relating to the APPLICANT, be corrected to...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03739
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03739 COUNSEL: NO HEARING DESIRED: NO ________________________________________________________________ _ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: He be awarded the Army Occupation Medal (AOM). The complete DPSID evaluation is at Exhibit C. ________________________________________________________________ _ APPLICANT'S REVIEW OF AIR FORCE EVALUATION: A copy of the Air Force evaluation was...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03740
This program was completed on 15 October 1976 and on 22 November 1976, he was again charged with possession. He served 1 year, 7 months and 28 days on active duty. In the interest of justice, we considered upgrading the discharge based on clemency; however, we do not find the evidence presented is sufficient to recommend granting the relief sought on that basis.
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03740-2
For an accounting of the facts and circumstances surrounding the applicants appeal and the rationale of the earlier decision by the Board - see Exhibit D. In a letter to the Board dated 8 May 2013, received by the AFBCMR staff on 12 June 2013, the applicant states since being discharged from the Air Force he has worked 35 years as a crane operator. Therefore, we do not find the additional evidence presented is sufficient to warrant the relief sought on that basis. ...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03743
ADDENDUM TO RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03743 COUNSEL: NONE XXXXXXX HEARING DESIRED: NO ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: His general (under honorable conditions) discharge be upgraded to honorable. For an accounting of the facts and circumstances surrounding the applicants request and the rationale of the earlier decision by the Board, see the...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03758
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03758 COUNSEL: NONE HEARING DESIRED: NO ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: He receive back-pay, points, medical benefits and all entitlements for the periods 20 June 2008 through 27 July 2008, and 1 April 2009 through 21 August 2009, based on medical documentation of his injury. Upon completion of the deployment, he returned...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03759
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03759 COUNSEL: NONE HEARING DESIRED: NO ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: 1. Based upon a correction to his records, he met the L0211E Reduction-in-Force (RIF) Special Selection Board and was selected for retention. Exhibit D. Letter, SAF/MRBR, dated 14 Dec 12.
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03760
His commander states that his contested TR contained both a direct and implied derogatory statement regarding his performance and should have been processed as a referral TR in accordance with (IAW) AFI 36-2406, Officer and Enlisted Evaluation Systems, and thereby denied due process protections. However, they disagree that the comment was in fact derogatory in nature, and presume that in the absence of input or explanation from the evaluator, that they were in fact valid for comment on the...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03764
________________________________________________________________ STATEMENT OF FACTS: The relevant facts pertaining to this application are described in the letter prepared by the Air Force office of primary responsibility which is included at Exhibit C. ________________________________________________________________ AIR FORCE EVALUATION: AFPC/DPSID recommends denial, indicating there is no evidence of an error or injustice. Germany is not considered to be a qualifying area of eligibility...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03766
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03766 COUNSEL: NONE HEARING DESIRED: NO _______________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: His 26 Jul 11 Fitness Assessment (FA) be removed from the Air Force Fitness Management System (AFFMS). The remaining relevant facts pertaining to this application are contained in the letter prepared by the appropriate office of the Air Force, which is...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03769
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03769 COUNSEL: NONE HEARING DESIRED: NO ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: His bad conduct discharge be upgraded to general (under honorable conditions). It also indicates that a bad conduct discharge is more than merely a service characterization; it is punishment for crimes committed while a member of the Armed Forces. ...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03770
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03770 COUNSEL: NONE HEARING DESIRED: YES _________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: His general (under honorable conditions) discharge be upgraded to honorable. We took notice of the applicant's complete submission in judging the merits of the case; however, we find no evidence of an error or injustice that occurred in the...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03773
Air Force Outstanding Unit Award (AFOUA) c. Air Force Good Conduct Medal (AFGCM) d. National Defense Service Medal (NDSM) e. Air Force Longevity Service Award (AFLSA) Upon final board decision, administrative correction of the applicant's official military personnel record will be completed by AFPC/DPSOY. The complete DPSID evaluation is at exhibit C. ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT'S REVIEW OF AIR FORCE EVALUATION: In response the applicant...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03777
On 2 June 2003, the applicant submitted a letter to his supervisor stating that he refused to provide any additional financial information to regain his security clearance. In his response, the applicant reiterates his contentions that he fulfilled the necessary requirement of paying into the MGIB and he served four years, which should allow him to use the MGIB to further his education. BY DIRECTION OF THE PANEL CHAIR Chief Examiner Air Force Board for Correction of Military...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03779
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03779 COUNSEL: NONE HEARING DESIRED: YES ________________________________________________________________ _ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: His general (under honorable conditions) discharge be upgraded to honorable. The discharge authority approved the separation and directed the applicant be discharged with a general (under honorable conditions) characterization of service. In the...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03780
The applicant declined the SBP coverage. A complete copy of the AFPC/DPSIAR evaluation is at Exhibit C. _________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT'S REVIEW OF AIR FORCE EVALUATION: The applicant reiterates that his medical condition was misdiagnosed and because of it, he was not prepared to make an informed decision at the time of his SBP briefing. A complete copy of the Applicants response is at Exhibit...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03783
AFBCMR BC-2012-03783 MEMORANDUM OF CONSIDERATION OF APPLICATION BEFORE THE AFBCMR SUBJECT: Having carefully reviewed this application, we agree with the recommendation of the Air Force office of primary responsibility and adopt the rationale expressed as the basis for our decision that the applicant has been the victim of either an error or an injustice. Therefore, we recommend that: The pertinent military records of the Department of the Air Force relating to the APPLICANT, be corrected to...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03787
AFBCMR BC-2012-03787 MEMORANDUM OF CONSIDERATION OF APPLICATION BEFORE THE AFBCMR SUBJECT: Having carefully reviewed this application, we agree with the recommendation of the Air Force office of primary responsibility and adopt the rationale expressed as the basis for our decision that the applicant has been the victim of either an error or an injustice. Therefore, we recommend the applicant's records be corrected to show that: The pertinent military records of the Department of the Air...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03788
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03788 COUNSEL: NONE HEARING DESIRED: NO ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: His records be corrected to reflect he is eligible to participate in the Air National Guard (ANG) Aviator Continuation Pay (ACP) program for fiscal year 2010 (FY10) with a four-year tour service commitment. He applied for the four-year ACP; it...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03789
AFBCMR BC-2012-03789 MEMORANDUM OF CONSIDERATION OF APPLICATION BEFORE THE AFBCMR SUBJECT: Having carefully reviewed this application, we agree with the recommendation of the Air Force office of primary responsibility and adopt the rationale expressed as the basis for our decision that the applicant has been the victim of either an error or an injustice. Therefore, we recommend that: The pertinent military records of the Department of the Air Force relating to the APPLICANT be corrected to...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03790
________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT CONTENDS THAT: The deceased former service member is entitled to the Army Distinguished Unit Badge and the Navy/Marine Distinguished Unit Badge because he was assigned to the 11th Bombardment Group during World War II during the qualifying period for these awards. The remaining relevant facts pertaining to this application are described in the letter prepared by the Air Force office of primary responsibility (OPR)...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03792
The remaining relevant facts pertaining to this application are contained in the letters prepared by the appropriate offices of the Air Force, which are attached at Exhibits C, D, and E. ________________________________________________________________ AIR FORCE EVALUATION: AFPC/DPSOR recommends denial of the applicants request to change his service characterization for discharge, indicating there is no evidence of an error or injustice. A complete copy of the AETC/SGPS evaluation is at...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03797
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03797 COUNSEL: NO HEARING DESIRED: NO ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: His general (under honorable conditions) discharge be upgraded to Honorable. On 31 Dec 81, the applicant was furnished a general (under honorable conditions) discharge and was credited with 3 years, 1 month, and 29 days of total active service. In view...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03800
The applicant failed to provide any information or support from the rating chain of record on the contested report. The complete DPSID evaluation is at Exhibit D. ________________________________________________________________ APPLICANT'S REVIEW OF AIR FORCE EVALUATION: Copies of the Air Force evaluations were forwarded to the applicant on 3 May 2013 for review and comment within 30 days (Exhibit D). Additionally, we note AFPC/DPSIMs recommendation to remove the 6 May 2011 Letter...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03801
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS AIR FORCE BOARD FOR CORRECTION OF MILITARY RECORDS IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NUMBER: BC-2012-03801 COUNSEL: NONE HEARING DESIRED: NO ________________________________________________________________ _ APPLICANT REQUESTS THAT: His reentry (RE) code of 2C Involuntarily separated with an honorable discharge; or entry-level separation without characterization of service, be changed to allow him to reenter the military. On 29 October 2012, the applicant was notified of...
AF | BCMR | CY2012 | BC-2012-03802
The Assistant Adjutant Generals policy, at the time of his transfer to the Retired Reserve section, in April 1993, considered only field grade officers and above and senior enlisted members for award of the MSM. The complete ANG/A1PS evaluation is at exhibit C. NGB/A1P states they concur with the NGB/A1PS advisory and recommend relief not be granted based on the Air Force policy. We took notice of the applicant's complete submission in judging the merits of the case; however, we agree...